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Mike
18-10-2006, 03:59 PM
When I read about an in to out swing or high trajectory shots or even worse wrist planes and shoulder turns my eyes glaze over. :o

I feel as though I know next to nothing about the technical side of the game. :confused: As a consequence I have no idea what clubs or balls suit me. My thinking for this thread came from reading the balls thread - some of you/lots of you seem to know quite a bit about your game and so choose balls that suit. I dare never go into the kit section for fear of feeling like a 7 year old in a Astrophysics class. :mad:

I learnt the game playing with mates in fields. We had a 7 iron each to start then eventually cobbled together a mixed set between us over two summers (including a blade or two and a junior club or two!). One of the group had an instruction book and one had had lessons from his dad at a golf club. The rest just kind of copied as best we could. Happy days :)

Three years ago I started again at 6am on muni courses with in-laws and after a season of that I had six half hour lessons because my inconsistnecy was becoming too frustrating to bear. My tutor was very down to earth unlike one guy who spent an hour with me a few months previously at The Belfry talking about swing planes (I couldn't take it in and literally rolled my eyes). :confused:

My down to earth guy talked in general terms of standing up a bit straighter, pushing out the club a bit more on the upswing and where to distribute my weight depending on the shot. That was about as technical as it got. A few weeks ago, a low handicap friend suggested I wasn't getting my short irons on a high enough attack line of the downswing so I now try and welly the arse off the ball (that's my technical term for it) and it's working.:cool:

I play to a decent standard. My official handicap should be reviewed to between 8 and 9 shortly and I rarely if ever shoot above 82/85. That and my putting is truly woeful (mid 30 putts a round). I can fade the ball at will but drawing the ball is a problem and I only try it on knockabout holes. I stand over every shot confident I'll advance it as I intend. :D

So what's my problem? Well, if I hit a bad tee shot the next is likely to go the same way as I have no fall back technical discipline to turn too. Once I lose my confidence it takes me a similar shot or two to get back. The same applies to an even greater extent around the green where I like to take out my sand wedge and float the ball to the pin (becuase it feels natural) but one thinned shot and I'm spent and have to turn to a 7 iron that'll be average at best for the next shot.:o

In addition, I only have a three quarter swing which isn't too fast (never been tested - just an observation) and friends advise that it is likely to be holding back my consistency. I'm a fairly big chap and usually hit the ball cleanly so distance isn't a problem though I have the all too common feeling that if I could just sort out my swing then a few more yards on my driver would occur. I'm loathe to get into stating distances publicly but if my ball is around the 150 marker I instinctively take out my 8 iron and hit it hard or soft depending on wind and terrain. I easily hit a driver over 250.:cool:

I have 20 yr old graphite irons that I bought on a whim for £90 a year or two ago. Mcgregor 'Jumbo' Reverse Draft if you're interested. I know they need to be replaced/looked at because they're a bit battered. But not knowing anything about the technical side of my game I fear I wouldn't be able to hit enough consistent swings/strikes for my game to be tested. Not sure if that makes sense but standing next to a club fitter on a range sends shivers down my spine. On a course I walk up to my ball, visualise the shot and hit it without any thinking. My attitude to golf balls is the same and I've only ended up with Callaway Big Bertha balls (having tried everything else) because they've tied in with a run of good scores.:)

So I see a lot of you guys seeming to know an awful lot about your games and swing mechanics and I feel left out. What's more there's a few that on paper don't seem to have my ability yet have a much greater understanding and I feel jealous:p

About 18 months ago I spent a few sessions at the local park hitting wedges from a hundred yards for hours and from that learnt how to move the ball and low/high flights etc. But I couldn't tell you how to replicate it off the top off my head!

Does anyone else share my experience? Or can anyone suggest ways of improving my understanding? How much do you feel you know about your own game? And as importantly how much do you know about the way forward and how to improve? 'cos I ain't got a clue!

Thanks for listening.....

Head Coverz
18-10-2006, 04:11 PM
Dude, looks like you know a hell of a lot more about your game than I do about mine! :D

The only thing technically that I worry about is my set up and grip, in general I trust myself to then swing it easy in a natural arc and hopefully send the ball at the target. If I ever get into a single figured handicap (14 right now), then perhaps I'll start taking the technical side of things a little more seriously, but at this point in my life with less time to practice than I would like I can't see me wanting to look too much further than that.

Also I think that scoring well has a lot to do with your short game, which is a lot less technical and a lot more "feel"? Not that improving technically wouldn't help here too!

Lowho
18-10-2006, 04:12 PM
I try to keep things as simple as possible when im working on my game, i can feel movements and the effect of them during the swing. Some people like it complicated, some dont. I go with the later. Even when i teach. I like to make things easier on my pupils and less confusing. When i am teaching a low handicapper generally between a 5 and 0, i get more technical because of the things they need to work on, not because they are better golfers.

Example i have is that yesterday morning i taught a 27 handicapper and he was so technical it was unreal, pretty much why he was off 27, thought too much.

Last week i was teaching a chap off +1 and he wanted it spoon fed basic info. No tech spiel just the bottom line.

Knowing about your swing is decieving, some people feel things in their swing that are not there. Some people say: "I was moving my head" when they shank it but their head was perfectly still. You can learn more about your swing if you just know the basics, Grip, alignment, posture, ball position. If you know those well in your own game it wont hurt one bit :)

GedK
18-10-2006, 05:50 PM
Frank,

keep it going mate- sounds like you know your game, know what feels right and what feels out of place when it goes wrong.

I feel that too many people have all this technical stuff going on in their brains, and more importantly feel that they need to know everything!
Get the latest shaft tipped and trimmed (whatever the that means)- biggest driver, latest irons.... Why? (Iknow the shiny ones all look great...!)

Learn to hit different shapes and trajectories.(as you have done, try it with other clubs as well), learn to hit punch shots, knockdowns and floaters...Enlist your pro if you can't work it out yourself.

The old adage, and I hope lowho agrees, keep it simple, is best.
When I teach I try to use analogies, where possible relating the intended feeling/movement to the pupils personal experiences - (other sports they have played etc....)

MisterS3
18-10-2006, 11:45 PM
Frank

I would rather be a natural feel golfer than a new to golf at 31 type person.

I am quite techinical by nature and so try to analyse my way to the answer, but that is in practise. when i play i just concentrate on hitting the ball, unless i'm struggling when i try to remember some swing thoughts, but most of the time on the course i'm just swinging the club! Obviously not as well as you though! One of the problems is that i don't know where i'm at with my swing, eg i saw my swing today for the first time in about 9months and its not as bad as i thought!! - hence the lessons which start next week.

You are miles ahead of me in terms of playing, and yet maybe i do know more about my swing plane etc. But I know who's handicap i'd rather have :D

Andrew Paxton
19-10-2006, 06:49 AM
Well I know what I'm doing in terms of my setup and how to change for different shot types, if I want to hit a fade or a draw.

Once the necessary changes to setup have been made for a particular shot, then the technical stuff stops. No more thinking about planes, arcs, this that or the other.

Once I'm happy with my setup, I take my cue from a line in "Bull Durham", a baseball movie for anybody not aware:

"Don't think - just throw"

Well for me it's:

"Don't think - just swing"

GedK
19-10-2006, 09:48 AM
Great attitude.

"Thinking is for practise. Playing is for playing" - Harvey Penick

MisterS3
19-10-2006, 10:05 AM
BTW - no idea why i called you Frank!! :D Apologies :D

Mike
19-10-2006, 10:05 AM
Thanks for the comments. Can't believe I wittered on that much!:o

No worries Mister S3. I'm tempted to change my ID name to make things simpler but we'll see. Haha! Oh and less of the "you're such a better player than me" malarky! I have a pretty sceptical attitude to handicaps and know enough scotsmen to know that golfing talent is in the water up there..

Tin Pot
19-10-2006, 10:51 AM
Well, what do I know, but here's my ten cents:

I dare never go into the kit section for fear of feeling like a 7 year old in a Astrophysics class. :mad:

The reason I know more than I can play, is that I spend too much time reading internet sites, and not enough time playing. :( Who cares if you happen to be able to verbalise an in-to-out swing, the RPMs you "need" on your drives etc, etc.?

I play to a decent standard. My official handicap should be reviewed to between 8 and 9 shortly and I rarely if ever shoot above 82/85. That and my putting is truly woeful (mid 30 putts a round).

Doesn't sound bad to me, an average under 2 putts is good...I think the answer lies later on....

Well, if I hit a bad tee shot the next is likely to go the same way as I have no fall back technical discipline to turn too. Once I lose my confidence it takes me a similar shot or two to get back.

I dentify how frequently a bad tee shot affects your score.

The same applies to an even greater extent around the green where I like to take out my sand wedge and float the ball to the pin (becuase it feels natural) but one thinned shot and I'm spent and have to turn to a 7 iron that'll be average at best for the next shot.:o

The most obvious suggestion of the whole post has to be chip and run, forget floating the ball (I love it too). You say your an 8 or 9 handicapper, and everyone says that getting lower is for the short game. Practise chipping in with say an 8 iron from a few yard out. Practise getting your putts always long.

In addition, I only have a three quarter swing which isn't too fast (never been tested - just an observation) and friends advise that it is likely to be holding back my consistency. I'm a fairly big chap and usually hit the ball cleanly so distance isn't a problem though I have the all too common feeling that if I could just sort out my swing then a few more yards on my driver would occur.

I don't see how your friends adice could possibly be correct. A 3/4 swing will be more consistent than a full swing.

I have 20 yr old graphite irons that I bought on a whim ..I know they need to be replaced/looked at because they're a bit battered. But not knowing anything about the technical side of my game I fear I wouldn't be able to hit enough consistent swings/strikes for my game to be tested.

Don't Fear the Fitter! :) Go see Lowho if you want a familiar face (?), but you haven't said anything is wrong with your iron play, so why change?

Mike
19-10-2006, 12:08 PM
Thanks Tin Pot for your comments especially the chip and run around the green. I know that's an area I can work on!

My putting stats are high for the overall level of my play. I'm as likely to three putt as one putt. It's in my head and I need to work on it. I need to get my clubs looked at because being that old and battered the odd one might be offset in some way etc. Also the old graphite shaft possibly isn't giving me as much as it could.

p.s. you and I should get together on the course and moan 'til the cows come home ;)

Creosote
19-10-2006, 12:10 PM
Frank - I think I know my own game pretty, its few plus points and many failings.

For the keen and enthusiastic golfer such as yourself I think its important to try and step back, and look at how one can best utilise ones strangths, and identify which weakness cause the greatest grief and come up with some sort of action plan to fix those weaknesses, so at least the level where thier impact is reduced.

The scores you are shooting regularly puts you at the upper end of amateur golf, so you must be doing a lot of things well! Just your posting shows that you are wishing to problem solve and go to the next level.

I don't believe there are any quick fixes, and going from low 80's to mid 70's IS a big step where ones whole game needs tightening. But importantly if you work towards that goal with determination I am sure you will succeed.

Sorry this reply is a lot of waffle and no concrete suggestions. But that IS the point. The solution and way forwards differs from golfer to golfer.

BTW If you ever solve the putting do let me know the magic solution!

Mike
19-10-2006, 12:11 PM
Thanks Creo ;)

Creosote
19-10-2006, 12:45 PM
Thanks Creo ;)

For nothing! :D ;)

Just keep plugging away. I was fortunate and didn't "stall" around that level, but making up for it now! I'm as stuck as a sticky thing stuck with super-glue. Maybe I should follow my own advice :)

Mike
19-10-2006, 01:15 PM
For nothing! :D ;)

Just keep plugging away. I was fortunate and didn't "stall" around that level, but making up for it now! I'm as stuck as a sticky thing stuck with super-glue. Maybe I should follow my own advice :)


I wouldn't really call it stalling but mounting frustration as slowly things improve you can see a holy grail in front of you :) I'm sure you can empathise ;)

I 'started' in the spring of '04 playing a Sunday 6am muni once or twice a month. I'd break a 100 but not with anything clever. Summer '05 I got a 18 handicap, 6 lessons in Autumn last year got me improving and through to about 12 this Spring. More consistent driving and better long irons has got me to where I am now around 9. Looking forward to the winter season ahead.....

Longshot
19-10-2006, 01:22 PM
"How much do you know about your swing ?"

Everything and nothing. I can pick a lot of technical faults in my swing but not while I'm doing it if that makes sense. Unlike many people I have no idea what I've done wrong much of the time when I've hit a lousy shot. I can't say "Ohhh, I pronated my wrist there" or "Didn't clear my hips on that one" or "Forgot to swing around my testicles" or whatever :)

One thing I do tend to rely on is tempo. I know when my tempo is good and that tends to produce a good shot.

I find it amazing how hard it is to produce the same swing time and time again.

Creosote
19-10-2006, 06:02 PM
Frank - you've been playing 18 months and you are down to 9!! Thats pretty awesome. May I revise my "advice" and say - just keep doing whatever it is you're doing as you seem to be able to play this game!

Tin Pot
19-10-2006, 07:36 PM
18 months? Another one? I'm handing in my golf clubs right now, anyone need a membership to MoonGolfer?

Creosote
19-10-2006, 07:40 PM
18 months? Another one? I'm handing in my golf clubs right now, anyone need a membership to MoonGolfer?


Just shows how easy this game is TP :D :D :D

Mike
20-10-2006, 06:27 AM
Frank - you've been playing 18 months and you are down to 9!! Thats pretty awesome. May I revise my "advice" and say - just keep doing whatever it is you're doing as you seem to be able to play this game!

I wish! I took up the game in Spring '04 so it's nearer two and a half / three years. And I had something to work on having played a bit as a teenager 12/14 years previously.;)

Tin Pot
20-10-2006, 08:42 AM
<Breathes sigh of relief> That doesn't excuse Gord though.