3/4 swing thoughts please

[Mike]

Swing Gurus

Simple question (hopefully!)

My post is inspired by reading the Paul/Lowho debate and also seeing a Bubba Watson add today in a German golf shop.

My name is Mike and I have a ¾ swing (perhaps even slightly less with the driver). My question is to seek advice on how this should, in theory, effect my game. I’m just curious that’s all. What are the ‘advantages’ of a full swing?

What are the mechanics of a short swing? Presumably I’m having to force power into the shot late on(?) – does that make any particular flaw more apparent?

Being fairly new to the game my scoring is good (breaking 80 each time is my target). 95% of the time I aim straight and am fairly accurate. I can play a fade but only really do so when there’s trouble to avoid or particular shaped green. I can hook/draw around obstacles if desperate.

My distance is okay too (roughly 150 yds – 8 iron, 250 yds – driver). I can belt the driver longer (same 3/8 swing – just more muscle) but loose accuracy – c20% would miss fairway left or right by 50+ yds.

I’m 6ft and have a large build (not fat – but definitely not skinny either!).

Swing is very self taught and I have tried several times of late to bring the club all the way back to a horizontal plane (just to experiment) but it feels totally weird and I lose all sense of control.

I’ve a set of 6 lessons with my local pro in the New Year and my question really is to inform me ahead of my next chat with my pro.

Would a ‘full swing’ significantly improve my swing speed and potentially distance? Would a ‘full swing’ give me better rhythm and tempo and possibly help accuracy? Everything else being equal.

I get on well with my pro, and he’s pretty easy going. During a playing lesson a few weeks back, he said that his intention is to not implement any radical changes as my progress thus far has been okay. I’m pretty happy with that as I know from this last season, Cat 1 scoring is within reach with better putting alone.

I’m just curious to know the ‘theory’ behind ¾ swings.

Cheers

Mike

[Marker]

I would like to play with a 3/4 swing.
I have enough length to do it and i gain a lot of control over the ball.
My ball striking improves and i play better golf.
Unfortunately i don't have the disaplin(sp?) to stick with it.
I just love hitting long ,full shots too much.:)

[Longshot]

95% of the time I aim straight and am fairly accurate.

My distance is okay too (roughly 150 yds – 8 iron, 250 yds – driver).


You want to change your swing why ??

I'm just over 6'1 and a little portly ;) and I put the ball out there OK, distance wise. Your figures are fine, especially with a 3/4 swing.

I find that it's the final 1/4 of the swing that causes most of my problems.

In my capacity as a golfing incompetent (although I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night) is that you are probably better off sticking with what you have and what works. Striving for the extra bit could screw up the good bits that you have now.

Are you trying to get to scratch ? Seriously ? From what you've siad in the past, work on your putting and other facets of the game first - that should get you nicely into mid single figures without a major swing change.

[Gogs Guy]

I wish I could have as much control as you! I try to play 3/4 swing with all my irons but I bet it looks like a full swing to viewers and as for woods I make John Daly look like a half swinger :(

[Steptoe]

i wish i could get into the 3/4 swing.i can do it with short irons and punch the ball low with spin.....but the longer clubs seem to carry me into overswing territory :(

[SBL]

Mike, I regularly play with a 3/4 swing. I find that I don't lose any distance as my strike is so much more consistent and my accuracy is better as I don't lose control through impact.

[Tin Pot]

3/4 is the way to go supposedly, as you get more control. Only go all out hell for leather if you really need to, or if you've lost your temper.

[Ian H]

i am only ever swinging 3/4's as well ( and like Mike shoot around the 80 mark mostly), and tend to lose control if i go all the way to the top. I definitely dont need more distance so doubt that i have any need to try and develop the fuller swing.

However a swing doctor might criticise me for being to "wristy" and if that was changed maybe i could go to a fuller swing, maybe?

[ftmals]

It all depends on what you describe as a 3/4 swing. It is largely irrelevant how close the club gets to parallel at the top, but I think it's important to make a full shoulder turn.

My swing is VERY short, but this is because I am about as flexible as a block of steel. I do however make as full a shoulder turn as possible. Generally a very short swing can lead to problems with rhythm and timing. If you have good hands you can compensate for this at impact.

[Paul Howard]

I have to say I tend not to discuss swings in thats 3/4 thats a full etc. This is because, I dont adhere to a model swing, I dont look at Daly as having an overswing or Trevino swinging it 3/4, but simply note Daly swings it longer in the backswing than Trevino, and so what would I do. Well a longer movement may give you an oppurtunity to increase your clubhead speed in the downward movement. If your already happy with your distance this may not be appropriate or your desire. However, I would always encourage golfers to have an extra 10 % in their locker. Sure it might distrupt your direction but the xtra power can be used when it is possible to have a low risk shot. However, I wouldnt try and do it by lengthening the backswing, I would try and increase the downswing speed, but you may find subconciously and instinctively the backswing lengthens on its own to allow you to increase the downswing speed.

For those of you sharpening your knives and about to laugh at this concept I would suggest that if I hit a tree with an axe harder than I did before, it is not done by thinking of lengthening my movement nor by any other thought but merely by instinctively moving the axe faster. However, this is just my opinion... and Yes, I have videoed and studied a persons movements chopping a tree down with varying speeds. Whilst the person claimed to be unaware that the movement was different the footage showed they widened their stance and made a longer movement in their backward movement.

[Ian H]

now this is a different kettle of fish. If I ease back to 90% i just dont hit it properly, i think i rely on my hand eye coordination rather than a grooved swing and changing the rhythm of my swing is deadly.

[Tin Pot]

For those of you sharpening your knives and about to laugh at this concept I would suggest that if I hit a tree with an axe harder than I did before, it is not done by thinking of lengthening my movement nor by any other thought but merely by instinctively moving the axe faster.

You're a bit defensive aren't ya? ;)

The total distance travelled by the club head, or axehead, in itself does not increase speed or power - no one is suggesting that it does.

Acceleration, however, is a rate of change. So the total time you are accelerating for does indeed increase the velocity of the club head at the point of impact.

The important thing is that; if you lengthen your swing, you maintain the same amount or acceleration throughout the time you are swinging before the club head contacts ball.

[Longshot]

You're a bit defensive aren't ya? ;)




Be fair, there's been some previous :laugh:

[Tin Pot]

Be fair, there's been some previous :laugh:

Looks like there's some "continuous" on another thread. ;)

[GETINTHEHOLE!]

Mike, I regularly play with a 3/4 swing. I find that I don't lose any distance as my strike is so much more consistent and my accuracy is better as I don't lose control through impact.

great post above I have been working on a 3/4 swing with my pro all summer and have seen the benefits listed above.

Fairways and greens now if I could just get the putter working..............

[MisterS3]

now this is a different kettle of fish. If I ease back to 90% i just dont hit it properly, i think i rely on my hand eye coordination rather than a grooved swing and changing the rhythm of my swing is deadly.

I'm kinda similar... i don't really know the length of my swing and was amazed when i saw myself on video recently and i get into a really "good looking" top position.

What i am missing is a consistent good tempo or rhythm to my swing.

When i am sending balls effortlessly down the range, its because i'm grooved in the right tempo for me. And my back is taking very little strain.

When like last night i'm struggling to implement a change - my tempo and rhythm goes and i'm hitting at balls and my back lets me know there is something not right quite quickly.

[GedK]

It sounds like your swing is a decent length already. What you perceive to be a 3/4 swing may be a full swing in someone elses eyes.
Your distances seem fine (unless you want to be play on tour). Any more lengthening of the swing or hitting harder may lead to less consistency. You'll soon find out at the range... check your fundamentals are sound then have a few wahoo's at the range.

For what it's worth, I used to have a long backswing in my youth (past horizontal), and I wasn't long or accurate. Nowadays, being a bit older and more rotund, the length of swing has dimished,(Istill make a good turn though), however, my timing and tempo and much more consistent. It only took 15 years to realise that golf is not a game of brute strength. I can knock it past most of my peers regularly, I believe, because I make dead solid contact with the ball more often than they do.

Besides one of the best players I know (a senior) plays to 1 with a swing thats shorter than a kangaroos arm. He isn't overly long, (gets it out there similar distances to you), however he's a magician with the short irons and the flat stick. That, and he's incredibly accurate off the tee.

Work with what you got....

[Paul Howard]

Tin Pot,

I didnt suggest that a longer swing would increase clubhead speed but I am suggesting that it may do. The purpose was to dsicover the advantages of a longer swing. A longer swing does give an oppurtunity to increase clubhead speed but doesnt in its own right guarantee a greater clubhead speed.

So in truth, I dont know why you posted that last message to me, I certainly wasnt suggesting anybody else said that, I am merely pointing it out.

[Ian H]

because i lose confidence when i make a full horizontal swing, i dont get a clubhead speed increase. But then i dont think I generate most of the clubhead speed with my downswing anyway (see my "wristy" and Hand eye comments).

[Paul Howard]

Ian H

I tend to think confidence is the major ingredient in performance. If you dont feel as confident with a longer movement... I wouldnt bother! (However, you dont sound that confident with your wristy beliefs anyway)

Believe your doing it right and enjoy the ride.

[Dabbler]

Before I had any sort of lessons, my swing was the full wrap around job, you know, the one where you can see the club head out of the corner of your left eye!

My 10 golf lessons over the summer were largely devoted to removing this: it has now almost completely dissappeared.

What I noticed on the weeks when the pro had told me to do a half swing (which looked like anybody else's full swing!) was that my rhythm was completely messed up and I would hit poor shots as a result. I think any tweaking of the golf swing should always address rhythm. When I have got my rhythm going I play very well for my standard.

[Paul Howard]

Dabbler,
Have you improved for this alteration... score? Ball striking? Distance? accuracy? im just interested.

[Ian H]

dont mistake my own analysis of my swing faults for lack of confidence, i am a very good ball striker most of the time, (curently playing to 12 and putting like an eejit to illustrate) just not say Els perfect and so as we all do i'd bet i spend too much time thinking what i do wrong. If i spent that time on a putting green i'd be a much better scoring player anyway.

[Knockdown]

3/4 swing is just about the best you could have IMO. I have tried to achieve this with my irons and its made a massive improvement to my accuracy, with minimal loss of distance also feel has been improved for finess shots.

I still OS with my woods, esp Driver but dont try to muller it anymore, unless its really needed eg to clear some high trees.It is useful to have extra in reserve but its been proven repeatedly, that once you swing beyond the zone where your left arm/elbow starts to collapse, your swing arc reduces and you loose club head speed as a result.

Thus, unless you have JD or Bubba Watson's 'freaky' upper body flexibility (V Rare even for Tour Pros) dont even try to overswing for more power and a full swing to parallel is not needed for most shots.

[Alex_Smith]

JB Holmes uses a 3/4 swing, but has a full shoulder turn and he hits it 'real big'. :D

Length of swing is irrelevant (spelling???), making a full shoulder turn will certainly help, distance wise.

[Longshot]

Look at it this way. If you had a catapult and you wanted it to fire further, would you use a longer piece of elastic or a tighten the existing piece ?

Answers on a postcard :wink:

[Alex_Smith]

Look at it this way. If you had a catapult and you wanted it to fire further, would you use a longer piece of elastic or a tighten the existing piece ?

A longer piece, that would then be tightened :p

[Longshot]

A longer piece, that would then be tightened :p

OK, smarta**e :laugh: Fair point.

[Dabbler]

Dabbler,
Have you improved for this alteration... score? Ball striking? Distance? accuracy? im just interested.

I would have to say yes. My distance has not changed. I have always hit the ball relatively long. What has been dramatic is the elimination of a "cover drive" slice I used to master.

Perhaps slightly off the point but the pro I was seeing just wanted to shorten my swing by telling me to shorten it physically. I later went on to see another pro who worked miracles as far as I am concerned........

He effectively shortened my swing by "alternate" methods, eg getting me to stand "stronger" so that there was minimal bend in my left knee, right elbow pointing to the floor at the top of the backswing, left hand pinkie finger and next finger not loosening at the top, left eye staying on the ball so that head doesn't turn further round and allowing more shoulder turn....and so on...

[Tin Pot]

Tin Pot,

I didnt suggest that a longer swing would increase clubhead speed but I am suggesting that it may do. The purpose was to dsicover the advantages of a longer swing. A longer swing does give an oppurtunity to increase clubhead speed but doesnt in its own right guarantee a greater clubhead speed.

So in truth, I dont know why you posted that last message to me, I certainly wasnt suggesting anybody else said that, I am merely pointing it out.

I know, you implied that it had no effect with your example of using an axe, that you don't swing longer. Perhaps we are in agreement then, but then your example was misleading.

Otherwise I was putting forward my own thoughts on long swings, I could be wrong, but it appears that we agree.

[Paul Howard]

Tin Pot,
I think we do agree... I look and read your posts, I like what you say.

[Marker]

Well i played yesterday and inspired by this thread i used 3/4 swing.
I clubed down on my shots and played them 3/4 speed as apposed to 3/4 length of swing.
I struck the ball much better and shot 88 on a tough day on a tough course with 2 8s on my card.
The 2 8s where daft tee shots which went OB so i can live with those as they will soon iron out of my game.

I did find that after about 14 holes i tightened up a little as the temptation to hit the ball started to kick in but resisted this and stayed with it.
I think the only part of my game that suffered a little was the driver and i will continue to use a full swing with this club in future.

With the 3/4 swing speed i found there was more time to gather information about what the club head was doing through the shot and my body seemed to have time to sort it's self out in time for the strike(if that makes sence)...i could feel the shot and what my hands were doing.

There was very little distance loss and i think my 3 wood off the deck actually went further on a couple of shots.

I will be sticking with it.:)

[GedK]

good man! stick with it!